ML & JK

Mary Zimbalist: Do you ever feel used, feel something coming into  you?

K: I wouldn't say that. It comes into the room when we are talking  seriously.

ML: How is it related to the pain?

K: Pain comes when I am quiet, not talking. It comes slowly until the  body
says, 'That is enough'. After reaching a crisis the body faints; the pain
peters out or there is some interruption and it goes.

ML: Can we rule out something from outside?

K: I don't. But what is the truth? There is an element in all this  which is
not man-made, thought-made, not self-induced. I am not like that. Is  this
something which we cannot discover, mustn't touch, is not penetrable? I am
wondering. I have often felt it is not my business, that we will never find out.
When we say it comes into being because the mind is vacant, I don't think it is
 that either. We have come to impasse. I have talked to you, to her [MZ], to
Subba Rao [who had known him since the early days]. He said, 'You have been
as  you since the beginning'. I ask myself, 'Is this true?' If it is, there is
no  hope for others. Is it all something which we cannot touch? We are trying
with  our minds to touch that. Try to find out what that is when your mind is
completely quiet. To find out the truth of the matter you have to have your
mind  empty. Not my mind which is in emptiness. But there is a factor we are
missing.  We have come to a point where our brains, our instruments of
investigation, have  no meaning.

ML: Might someone else be able to find out? And would it be right to  enquire?

K: You might be able to because you are writing about it. I cannot. If  you
and Maria [MZ] sat down and said, 'Let us enquire, I'm pretty sure you could
find out. Or do it alone. I see something: what I said is true—I can never
find
 out. Water can never find out what water is. That is quite right. If you
find  out I'll corroborate it.

ML: You would know if it were right?

K: Can you feel it in the room? It is getting stronger and stronger. My  head
is starting. If you asked the question and said, 'I don't know', you might
find it. If I was writing it I would state all this. I would begin with the boy
 completely vacant.

ML: Do you mind it said that you want it explained?

K: I don't care. Say what you like. I'm sure if others put their minds  to
this they can do it. I am absolutely sure of this. Absolutely, absolutely.  Also
I am sure I can't find it.

ML: What if one could understand it but not be able to put it into  words?

K: You could. You would find a way. The moment you discover something  you
have words for it. Like a poem. If you are open to enquire, put your brain  in
condition, someone could find out. But the moment you find it, it will be
right. No mystery.

ML: Will the mystery mind being found?

K: No, the mystery will be gone.

Mary Zimbalist: But the mystery is something sacred.

K: The sacredness will remain.

ML: Your teaching is complicated.

K: Very complicated.

ML: If you read it would you understand it?

K: Oh, yes, yes.

ML: Who made the teachings? You? The mystery?

K: A good question, Who made the teachings?

ML: Knowing you as K, the man, it is hard for me to think of you making  the
teachings.

K: You mean without study, did you or some other person make  them?

ML: Something manifests in you which does not seem to be part of your  own
brain.